Boutros Boutros-Ghali : « Je veux exprimer ma gratitude au gouvernement français et au peuple français d'avoir agi pour arrêter un génocide qui est commis au Rwanda depuis plus de deux mois dans l'indifférence de la communauté internationale ! »

Ockrent, Christine

23 juin 1994

19940623

23:00:00

CEST

Journal de 23 heures [2/2]

Boutros Boutros-Ghali : « Je veux exprimer ma gratitude au gouvernement français et au peuple français d'avoir agi pour arrêter un génocide qui est commis au Rwanda depuis plus de deux mois dans l'indifférence de la communauté internationale ! »

Christine Ockrent interviewe Boutros Boutros-Ghali en duplex de New York.

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[Christine Ockrent interviews Boutros Boutros-Ghali in duplex from New York.]
- Christine Ockrent: Mr. Secretary General, you vigorously supported the French intervention in Rwanda despite the opposition of the Organization of African Unity, the reluctance of the Security Council and the open hostility of the Rwandan Patriotic Front. Are you not afraid to give your support to such a controversial intervention?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: First of all, I think that this opposition has been extremely exaggerated. And I would say secondly that once a Security Council decision has been adopted, that resolution becomes law. And all member states must respect this resolution.
- Christine Ockrent: You are therefore confirming to us that this is an intervention within the framework of the United Nations, even if it has not been the subject of a request from the country concerned or even from one of the parties involved?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Yes, definitely. This takes place within the framework of the United Nations. It is a humanitarian intervention which is in coordination, in cooperation with the United Nations. It's time-limited for until we can, uh, find the necessary troops to continue this action for peace in Rwanda.
- Christine Ockrent: Precisely aren't you afraid that this French intervention will further delay the sending of these famous 5,500 blue helmets that you have been calling for for weeks and that no one wants to send?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: I don't think so. On the contrary, I think that the presence of France will encourage certain nations to send troops. And once the mission of the multinational force is over, we can discuss with the troops who remain in place to continue the action of the United Nations.
- Christine Ockrent: Paradoxically the troops who are there, therefore the UNAMIR under the command of Canadian General Dallaire, had to reduce its manpower and send back French-speaking African blue helmets for fear of retaliatory measures following the French intervention.
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: It is a precaution that we have taken. We had a similar operation in Somalia where we had the UN forces which were at the time Pakistani forces. And we had multinational forces that came, which coexisted with the United Nations forces, it was the "Unified command" under American command. And after a certain period of time, they withdrew and we took over.
- Christine Ockrent: You know that among the criticisms that we hear a lot in France and elsewhere on this intervention, some point out that France is not neutral in the Rwandan affair, that this intervention can have very negative consequences, including on civilian populations and even encouraging the Hutu, long supported by the French and who were also the worst massacres.
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Faced with a genocide, we must intervene regardless of the accusations that may come from either side. And I want to express my gratitude to the French government and to the French people for having acted to stop a genocide that has been committed in Rwanda for more than two months in the indifference of the international community!
- Christine Ockrent: In the indifference of the international community, in the indifference also of African countries. You are African Mr. Boutros-Ghali…
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Of course! But the community of these African countries are members of the international community and they are responsible.
- Christine Ockrent: So you are not disappointed by the attitude of the OAU?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: No, the OAU tried! The OAU took a position before the adoption of the resolution. Before the adoption of a resolution, it is normal that we listen to the point of view of those who oppose the resolution. This is the democratic system! And among those who opposed, the OAU tried to explain its point of view. But the decision has been made, this resolution is law! And it is more important than all other decisions! It is binding for all Member States!
- Christine Ockrent: There is also the political and military reality on the ground: we know that the Rwandan Patriotic Front is violently hostile to this intervention. He controls two-thirds of the territory. Can we imagine a political solution in the long term, while the Rwandan Patriotic Front is against it?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: But I'm not entirely of the opinion that the Patriotic Front is against it. I have information that negotiations will begin and I am certain that these negotiations will lead to a solution. I appointed a new special representative, who was the former Permanent Secretary for Foreign Affairs of Pakistan, Shahryar Khan. He is here in New York, which he will leave in the next few hours for Rwanda and he will tackle the problem of reconciliation and he will tackle the problem of the implementation of the Arusha accords, s some changes are needed to these agreements, to find a political solution to the problem! This action coexists with the UN presence and with the multinational presence led by France.
- Christine Ockrent: If I understand you correctly, the Rwandan Patriotic Front is therefore taking part in this process?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: But certainly he will participate, he is a stakeholder!
- Christine Ockrent: The Nigerian Nobel Prize for Literature, Wole Soyinka, has just described Rwanda in very candid terms as "a slaughterhouse country", "a clinically dead nation". And he says that it will be necessary to have the courage to review in Africa and perhaps elsewhere these international borders sometimes drawn so arbitrarily in colonial times. What is your reaction?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: I am in favor of maintaining the status quo of the uti possidetis which was adopted in 1963 by the Organization of African Unity: borders can be unjust but want to revise the borders is to allow endless wars in the African continent, it is to encourage a micro-nationalism that risks dividing Africa even more than it is.
- Christine Ockrent: What can you do to have at your disposal a permanent intervention force, a sort of United Nations preventive army which, perhaps at the end of the century, would try to prevent all these conflicts that drag on and that the United Nations cannot resolve anywhere?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: No, I think the United Nations has managed to solve problems! They managed to solve problems in El Salvador, in Cambodia, to a large extent in Somalia, I would even say in the former Yugoslavia! That we have difficulty finding UN troops, that we have financial problems, that we have logistical problems should not constitute an obstacle to our action! Now, I don't think the international community is ready to accept the existence of permanent UN forces. On the other hand, it can place at the disposal of the United Nations national forces which would take part in a peacekeeping operation and which would return, once the operation is over, to their respective countries.
- Christine Ockrent: Do you think we are taking this path when we see the incredible difficulty in mobilizing member countries of the United Nations to send blue helmets, to Rwanda for example?
- Boutros Boutros-Ghali: I think there are ups and downs. We went through highs: it was easy to get 28,000 troops in Somalia, to get a billion dollar budget for Cambodia, to get a police presence in El Salvador. Now we are going through a difficult period where we have to fight against neo-isolationism. But I'm sure it will pass. The international community is going to realize that it needs the United Nations, that it needs a strong United Nations and a United Nations that can quickly have forces at its disposal to maintain peace and sometimes even to impose peace on certain States or to certain factions.